Warwick and Rogers' question
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Warwick and Rogers' discussion question 2 is:
- Should we excuse teenagers for irrational behavior as their brains are not fully developed? Why / why not?
You have 15:00 minutes to write your answer in the comment box below.
Planning
I suggest you spend 4:00 minutes to plan your answer. (Planning is usually a good idea.)
- choose a topic
Done. Warwick and Rogers specify the topic to discuss. It is whether we should excuse irrational behaviour by teenagers on the grounds that their brains are not fully developed.
- get ideas on the topic
What reasons for and against can you think of? Which are stronger? What examples or personal experience might be useful?
- organize your ideas
Which side of the issue will you support in your topic sentence? Do you also want to suggest the supporting reasons in your topic sentence? Will you first present the opposing side or your side? What reason will you present first? And next? What details, such as examples or explanation, will you include with each reason?
That will leave you 8:00 minutes to write your response to the question, turning your ideas into sentences organized into a paragraph or two (I don't think you have time to write an essay). The remaining 3:00 minutes can be used to edit (review, revise and proofread) your writing before you click the blue "Publish" button.
A helpful strategy
Imagine you are writing for someone who has not seen the question you are answering. Your job is to clearly communicate your response to that reader. Because your writing should make sense independently of the question it might be answering, it is usually helpful to give background, which can often be done by paraphrasing the question into statements that begin your answer.
Remember: sentences in paragraphs
This is response writing. You want to communicate your ideas fluently as if you were speaking for a few minutes to someone actively listening. However, that person can't stop you to ask questions or clarify, so it's important to state your ideas in complete sentences organized into paragraphs.
References
- Warwick, L. & Rogers, L. (2018). Skillful 4: Reading & Writing, Student's Book Pack (2nd. ed.). London: Macmillan Education
The “excuse” is like the limited time offer of “forgiving” every time even adults are doing s wrong at the beginning of something, it is better to excuse than complain, so as children who have grown into adolescence for the first time, they must do everything in the first time, no matter it is right or wrong they will pass that task in to others, and those choice that they made will slowly build their life-style, the way to view the world and for the most important thing that everyone has, the common sense.
ReplyDeleteComparing to adult, they’re just like kid in the new place, trying things, trip over on something, is that the unforgivable thing?
I like Poom's introduction of the idea of common sense, which seems to me exactly what is missing from adolescents' brains due to their being undeveloped. For example, when young drivers get behind the wheel of a car and speed to impress their mates, or just to impress themselves with the power they control, they are acting irrationally rather than displaying the common sense that we expect of adults. Unfortunately, the statistics show that young drivers do cause substantially more accidents than other drivers. The reason I wanted us to think about exactly what might be included by Skillful's verb excuse was to have some concrete examples in mind as we responded to the discussion question. While teenagers do not often chop people's heads off in a fit of irrational anger, they do often drive recklessly, so if a young driver, say 17 years of age, is speeding down the expressway and causes a traffic accident that kills someone, should she be treated like an adult or excused the deaths that resulted from her irrational driving that lacked common sense? How should society, ourselves, and the legal system treat such events?
DeleteThankfully, you mentioned about common sense which is practical knowledge needed to help people live in logical way and make sensible decision. Therefore, a lack of common sense possibly leads to illogocal behaviour. To prevent such action, are there any ways to improve common sense in young people? Are there generally-accepted common sense or common sense varies across places?
DeleteI partly agree when it says we should excuse teenagers for irrational behavior as their brains are not fully developed. I agree on the first part that they should be forgiven, but not from the scientific factor that the brains are not at their peak of functioning. We need to let them have more chances because they are lacking of experience and sense of maturity. Experience and maturity are developing when people get older. You understand what is right and wrong, and how to handle the situation with best practices. This goes back to the question raised by a classmate why adult did not receive the same chances.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you but what’s the best practices? could you give some example?
DeleteI totally agree with Beer point of views. I also feel like what's Emma said in the class that why adult does not get a second chance as kids do. However, kids' brain might not fully develop yet we need to set the rules and regulations for them to learn and follow. So they know what come after when they lack of responsibility on what they have done. For example, when juveniles make a crime they would get punishment. Although, the sentence wouldn't be as severe as what's adult get, but they need to be join in the punishment process. There are no excuse for not doing that. As it could teach them to be more aware of what they have done and be responsible for the result.
DeleteReply to Anusya Boonchu on what is the best practice. As I mentioned, I believe teenagers lack of experience and maturity. Let's talk about the teen mum problem and best practice. If they have enough knowledge and experience, they will use protection (condom and/or birth control pill). If they are mature enough, they would assess what can unprotected sex lead to - pregnancy, abortion, and STD. When this problem happens to any teenagers, they should get supports and guidance on how to make a decision, they should not be punished.
DeleteI disagree with your” disagreement on the science factor” for me, if we need to look at the law, even our quotes that we speak out when we saw some kids make a mistake”They’re growing” I believe it contains both terms of experience and biological, they’re not socially and biologically growing enough to do things that require the mature person with full cognitive and concentration.
DeleteI totally agree with Beer and Naam's opinion. I think that to say teenagers make mistakes because their brains are not fully developed. Therefore, if we have rules or regulations, as Naam mentioned above, let him learn, it helps prevent wrongdoing that will happen, isn't? And, if learning the rules would be another way for brain development, right?
DeleteI only have 5:00 minutes left, but before our class, I had thought about whether teenagers should be held accountable for irrational acts that they might do as a result of their brains being undeveloped in ways that affect their ability to reason and be sensible. I think that it is certainly wrong to treat adolescents the same way adults are treated by the legal system: even if a young person commits an awful crime, if their brains are less capable of understanding what they are doing or judging the consequences or reasonableness of an act, that should be taken into consideration in deciding how the courts treat their behaviour. In fact, I would like to support a more radical idea, but 53 seconds definitely does not leave me time for that. But perhaps for homework I'll be able to suggest it as a response to your comments here.
ReplyDeleteShould we forgive teenagers when they behave or act in unreasonable ways? I think we shouldn't. Although there is a scientific supports that they will behave in that way because their brains haven't fully develop, I don't think we should allow them to be free from their ill-responsibility. I think they should be punished by their bad behavior that might be harmful to the other people, because that can make them learn from the mistakes. For example, if a school student bully another school students at school because he just disliked his friend's hair, teachers shouldn't excuse the irrational student, but should punish he in a reasonable way. I think forgive people at any ages with a reason that their brains are not fully developed is unacceptable. I think it is like forgive a drunk person when they've done harmful things.
ReplyDeleteEmma's comparison of the irrational behaviour that results from an undeveloped brain with the irrational behaviour that often comes from using the popular drug alcohol is useful. I think that comparison helps us understand the point of the question that Skillful asks us to reflect on. When people drink alcohol or use other drugs, those chemicals tend to shut down the same parts of the brain that are undeveloped until our early twenties, leaving drug users subject to the same irrational thinking and behaviour as teenagers.
DeleteIn the case of adults who, for example, drink and then drive, it seems reasonable not to accept being drunk as an excuse for causing a traffic accident that kills someone. They knew that alcohol is a mind-altering drug before they started drinking wine with their friends at dinner, so should have made sure they had arranged a safe way to get home (taxi, bus, or lift with sober friend) that did not involve driving a car under the influence of the drug. Because they were drunk is not, therefore, a reason to excuse adults who cause traffic accidents.
But it might be a bit more complicated in the case of adolescents, who, unlike adults, do not start from a position where they are fully capable of rational thinking to plan for the immediate future when they will be less rational and less coordinated. Perhaps adults around them need to be aware of and take pre-emptive action to reduce the risks that are likely to confront teenagers approaching adulthood. Beer Anirut's example at 23:03 above in reply to Anusya Boonchu's reply to his comment at 20:37 on July 19 was useful here I thought. Parents and other adults know that teenagers are likely to experiment with sex, so it might be sensible to make sure that they have condoms and knowledge about the possible risks, and how to get help if needed. And if an unwanted pregnancy or other problem arises, they should be helped to make an informed, sensible choice as to whether to have an abortion or seek other help.
I disagree with that, the scientific report and law enforcement are supporting this in the same way, that they will excuse the person who is still immature, but with more supervision, the guilty children have to be under the supervision of the responsible keeper, such as doctor or the officer who in charge and capable of improving those children into the right way, and here comes the line, sometimes children is intentionally do something wrong, such as bullying friends, it is not against the law, why sometimes they have to find out themselves what is wrong and right to do, that’s why it will be called as common sense, a person who is mature enough will not bullying people in a nonsense cause such as hating their friend’s hair, moreover the maturity will tell you that excessive of drinking alcohol is also wrong to do, right?
DeleteHi Peter, thank you for your thoughtful comments. Now I understand that the reason why we should excuse adolescence when they behave in a irrational way. I see your point that the difference between adolescence's ability to make rational decision and adult's ability to make rational decision is the ability to plan well by using experiences. I agree that when I was young I used to know a little about things around me and that would prevent me from recognizing possible bad events that could happen in the future, so my parents used to tell me that they would welcome me to tell them every things so that they could suggest me and help me plan and that used to prevent me from 'learning by mistakes'.
DeleteI think we couldn't' excuse a teenager's guilt because if we do not give them a punishment maybe they are doing it again in the future. Although, they have said that they did it because of their age or their brains not developed yet. But, I think we can give it a light punishment--I thought that light punishment is one of an excuse.
ReplyDeleteI totally disagree with this statement. Undeniably, if we don’t punish them, they might do it over again in the future. However, if we teach them gently with understanding them, they may feel guilty and may probably think that I should change myself becoming better person. I think both light and heavy punishment not lead to the best outcome. I believe that it has other solutions to solve this problem and teenagers will not feel haunt.
DeleteI might forget to think sometimes punishment can hurt the child's feelings. Maybe the compromise way as you mentioned. It would be another option to help them.
DeleteAfter I have read Aoei and Anusya comment I have a question that what is meaning of "excuse". If excuse is meaning like except, I think teach them is one way that we could not excuse them. Because we react with their behavior.
DeleteI do think I would excuse teenager for such behaviour for compelling reasons. One of those is that teenagers' brains are not fully developed, resulting in less cognitive abilities. This means that they might have little knowledge about what the right and wrong things are, and therefore likely leading to crimes or wrongdoings.
ReplyDelete" what is the right and wrongs thing " Could you give some example of this sentence?
DeleteI don't agree with you Best. How would you teach your brother or sister to walk in the right track if you not give them a lesson. Our personality grow up when we learn a lesson and have been through those process. When we did something good it reflects us in a positive way. However, if we do irritable act to others, the result may turn out badly or cause yourself in danger. How would you teach your kids to learn all of this thing if you are not set rules or regulation for them to follow or give them punishment to shape their behavior on the right track.
DeleteWe have the same idea on the limitation of teenagers to know what is right and wrong. My idea to support this thought is they have less experience and not mature enough compare to adults. Therefore, they should be excused with consequences, for example, warning, behavior monitoring, or public service.
DeleteFrankly, it is too narrow to use non-fully development of teenagers as a reason solely to excuse thier irrational behaviour. Holistically, other factors such as nuture and experience should be considered when teenagers are either excused or blamed.
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ReplyDeleteSometime we can see teenager get less punishment than adult but he must have to punish. I agree with this method because some of their irrational brain is not fully development. And the important thing how to punish them. The way that punish him is an experience for him to learn and grow to be good adult.
ReplyDeleteTeenagers should not be excused for irrational behaviour as considering only their brains are not fully developed because we should review other perspectives before judging their behaviour such as the way they have been nurtured and the experience they have had.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your idea. It took me think of this idiom "don’t judge a book by its cover". we shouldn't judge other people until we literally know them well. in the other words, there are several factors led to each child behaviour like as you mentioned above.
DeleteI like the factors that X suggests we also take into account as reasons to perhaps excuse the irrational acts of teenagers. If I've understood correctly, his suggestion that how "they have been nurtured" especially is of a very different type to the biological factor of normal brain development.
DeletePersonally, I would oppose X's view as the scientific research is reportedly shown that mental abilities are fully developed between the age of 22 and 27. This means that most teenagers cannot have proper behaviours by then whether how they have nurtured. On top of that, this can be evidenced by the US law regarding the juveniles penalty which specifies that teenagers, below fifteen, cannot be sentenced to capital punishment even they commit a crime.
DeleteThe reason I wrote, "If I've understood correctly," in my reply to X above (Peter AUA, 2021, July 19 at 22;39) is that I think I initially misunderstood. Having now read both Anusya's and Best's comments, I think they might have understood X as making very different claims, so I've decided to post the rather long comment I had written last night before deciding not to publish it. I decided against publishing not so much because it's long (long comments are OK), but because I worried that the grammar focus might be confusing, which is why I've also added a much simpler example that I hope is clearer.
Deletewhen I first read X's first clause, I think I misunderstood: I thought he meant, that "Teenagers should not be excused for irrational behaviour" by considering only their brains not being fully developed. After reading the full sentence again, I think we do agree that they should be excused solely for the reason that their brains are not fully developed, but that there can also be other reasons why they should be excused. The problem comes from the word "not" in the main clause, which is also the first clause. That clause is grammatically correct, but still leaves the meaning of the sentence ambiguous as the word "not" could apply either to the clause it's in, or to the whole sentence, which gives two very different possible meanings:
1. Because we should review other perspectives before judging their behaviour, teenagers should not be excused for irrational behaviour by considering only their brains not being fully developed. (= they should not be excused due to undeveloped brains)
or
2. It is not because we should review other perspectives before judging their behaviour that teenagers should be excused for irrational behaviour considering only their brains not being fully developed. (= they should be excused due to undeveloped brains)
I'm pretty sure from the context that X means 2. not 1.
But X's sentence, written very quickly, is a complex and prehaps confusing example of how perfectly correct grammar can still cause misunderstanding. A simpler example of the same ambiguity is:
John is not angry because it rained. It is not clear here whether John is angry or not angry.
The sentence could mean:
1. Because it rained, John is not angry. (He's a farmer who wanted rain, so unlike people who had planned picnics, John is happy it rained.)
or
2. It is not because it rained that John is angry. (He's angry because his accountant stole his money this morning: his anger has nothing to do with the rain that watered his crops.)
I quite agree with X that we should review more on how the teenager grew up or been treated by their parents and the society where they live in. I think that brain development is not the only factor that causes inappropriate behavior. If they grew with a family that often fight and argue, they are most likely to absorb the behavior as well. It might be ok to give them little punishment.
DeleteI agree with the part of X's said that "we should review other perspectives", I believe that behaviour is not caused by the brain only, it involves the experience that they have learned and their minds.
DeleteAdmittedly, this topic is widely discussion but in my opinion, I agree with the statement that people like an adults or old ages should excuse adolescents because of many reasons.
ReplyDeleteThe first reason that people should know about brain's teenagers are not fully developed. To elaborate, their brains are being pruned back. Another reason is some children do not have much experiences as adults particularly in working. That's why people should forgive and provides some advice.
I like your last comment that people should forgive and provide some advice.
DeleteI do agree that we should not excuse adolescents when they do things wrong. However, giving an advice or explanation are a good method that I haven't thought of that. I remembered that my mom always yelled at me and spank me over my legs. However, my dad acted differently, he would talk to me about what I had done. He would explain to me what was wrong with my act and then I understand that and I wouldn't do it again. Providing advices help me out in a better way than giving me a punishment. I think this idea is better than punishment in some cases.
I wholeheartedly concur with Anusya's view as I do believe if we are not mature, we could make more mistakes. This is due to the fact that teenagers' cognitive skills are still developing and will be fully grown by the age of 27. Likewise, a host of experiences cannot be faced by teenagers such as making ends meet and dealing with difficulty.
DeleteI like the part that you say adults are particularly working and have more experience than teenagers, personally I think they should have well adjusted in society more than us. From my experience, as I used to work part time job helping my family in a Thai restaurant. Working helps you gain more perspective in life and how to deal with different people not only at our age and many times I made a lot of mistakes, but they forgave me and teach me to improve my skills in working with others people and eventually I improved and enjoyed working with them a lot better.
DeleteYour answer sounds right to me as you provide quite clear explaination to support why youngsters should be excused. You do not neglect other crucial point to be considered like experience.
DeleteIn my opinion, teenager's behaviors can be excused as their brain are not fully developed and there is also a scientific evidence shows that in adolescents brains still continue to mature develop as well as there is a specific cell in the brain, which control and responsible for immediate reactions,including agressive behavior. That's why they are most likely to act before they think and have inappropriate behavior. However, it depends on their action as well because if they kill someone or physically hurt someone, this can't be excused.
ReplyDeleteHi Opal, after reading your comments, it reminded me of the problems of bullying in schools or high schools. Although I somewhat accept that adolescence should be forgiven for their irrational behavior because of the limitation of their brains'capability, I somewhat support the idea that they should not be excused for their unreasonable behavior. I can't stand when I see young people being rude or bullying another young people without no one punishing them for their wrong doing.
DeleteHi Opal and Emma, I agree with Emma idea that irrational behavior of teenagers should not be excuse. On top of that, I think the important thing I how we react with that teenagers. If we just punish him and do not tell why we are doing like that, this can make them think we are doing irrational behavior too.
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