And since all of our answers there must be based on what is in two paragraphs, one of which is quite short, the research demands of those questions is very restricted - there are only two paragraphs that can be used - so I decided to invite you to move some of the discussion from class to here.
Question 2 in full on the discussion sheet, with a small addition, is:
2. The
first two paragraphs of the novel are set apart from the rest. From those two
paragraphs only, what do we know or are able to infer (or reasonably assume) about the following
questions? How do you know?
a. Where is the novel set?
b. What is the area like?
c. Who are the people in the area?
d. What do you think that life is like for those
groups of people?
e. What year or period do you think it is?
f. What is Steinbeck’s main purpose in these two
paragraphs?
Although I've already given my ideas on a. and b., please feel welcome to add to or contradict anything I've said in your own comment or two below, where you can address one, or two, or more, of the specific questions here.And we are also bearing in mind that our larger purpose in these questions is to evaluate Steinbeck: How well is he doing in his art? How well is he achieving his purposes? How good is he as a writer?
__________
Reference
Based on only the first two paragraphs, I think the novel set in a far and isolated area in countryside; moreover, in my imagination, it looks like the author stands beside a pool, and describes environments around him; that is, there are a hillside bank, a sand bank, a tide, a pool, mountains, and many kinds of small animals such as rabbits, racoons, dogs, and deer. Furthermore, the author describes that there is an ash pile made by fires, and the limb around that pile is smooth by people who sat on it.
ReplyDeleteUntil this point, I have many questions such as why does the author not mention to some dangerous or big animals such as tigers, bears, bulls, or elephants because these kinds of animals normally come to a pool and drink water from a pool? In addition, why does the author obviously see many cues of animals and people, or is the area not windy despite surrounding by a river and mountains?
Therefore, I think the area that novel set in is an area beside a pool, and I think this area is a resting area of adventurers who journey pass it to their destinations. This area has no community. Finally, I think the story occurred in 1900s because of no dangerous animals around a pool.
I like Sup's questions about the absence of more dangerous animals, such as tigers, elephants and bears. Do you think any of those might be lurking near by, waiting to spring out and eat unwary boys?
DeleteSup's idea that it's a resting place for adventurers also seems worth commenting on. (I'm afraid my comment would not be to agree - the supporting reasons being ... )
Wow, I have not thought of those kinds of dangerous animals before. Based on what we discussed in our class, the novel set is the countryside and there are boys coming to play and swim in the pool. It can be inferred that those boys might run from their village to the pool; therefore, the location of this pool might be quite closed to a residential area. My focusing point is that it is hard to believe that there are harmful animals, namely, tigers, lions and bears, which are hiding near by and waiting for their prays. This seems to be a nice and peaceful place for recreation, not a real jungle. If there are frightful animals, people would not come down from the highway to picnic here and parents would not allow their children to play around this place.
DeleteI must confess that I was a bit surprised by the dangerous animals, but discussing it will definitely help to clarify some questions about the background.
DeleteSo, are there any tigers, elephants or other such animals lurking in the brush, waiting to pounce out and eat up George and Lennie while they are sleeping peacefully? (There is a compelling clue in ¶ 1).
I also like Soi's reasoning at January 28, 2013 at 8:36 PM, especially about the extent and nature of the "jungle" (is it even jungle?), although I'm less sure about the presence of either a village or other residential area, presuming Soi has in mind something like a town or other grouping of homes.
DeleteIs there a village or residential area within reasonable running distance for boys looking for a cool dip on a hot day?
I don't think that there are such the big animals like an elephant or tiger. Because there are no those species in western. So the author tell the description of the place look real for me.
DeleteBut I think there is a dangerous animal like a snake. Because snake is adaptable species, it is possible to have a snake in that place.
For a bear, maybe yes. But generally a wild species dislike to live in a place that near human area like a pool in the novel.
I agree with Soi's idea that the pool is near the residential area but in rural area.
As Peter mentioned above, if I carefully read only ¶1 which shows that there are tracks of deer, coming to drink water, I would probably think that there are other kinds of wild animals there. But if I continue reading through ¶2, I might change my mind and assume that animals like tigers or elephants are not prone to live there.
DeleteIn chapter 1, both Lennie and George seems to sleep peacefully without animal's attack. Furthermore, if there are harmful animals, George would not tell Lennie to hide in the brush in that area.
Mo is right that elephants and tigers are not found in the US, so which detail in paragraph 1 tells us that we are in the US?
DeleteThere is more than one, but one is compelling in for the animal question. I think Soi is on the right track with the deer. Where does that track lead?
There is a snake on page 8. It seems pretty harmless.
DeleteWhat is Soledad? This is one of homework today. In general, Soledad can be a name of anything. For example, Narathiwat in Thailand is a name of many things such as a road in Bangkok and a province in southern region.
ReplyDeleteHowever, based on the first two paragraphs, I try to put myself in the shoe of the author and think as I am a traveller. If I want to record my trip and publish it to my friends, I think Soledad should be my starting place or a place where I left from before I arrive a pool.
Therefore, in my opinion, Soledad might be a center area of city, a train station, or a bus station. It is not necessary to be a village.
Excellent ideas. Thank you Sup.
DeleteBut now I'm wondering should I delete and repost here the comment I just made asking the questions you've addressed so well here.
I think I'll leave it as it is.
I like your idea to "put [yourself] in the shoes of the author." It seems to have borne fruit.
And what about Soledad, which worried us so much this morning?
ReplyDeleteI almost asked this at the conclusion of my comment on Sup's constructive comment at January 28, 2013 at 7:01 PM, but then decided it might deserve it's own discussion thread.
If anyone has done the relevant research out of interest, that might usefully be reported here, with an explanation of how the facts fit with what we learn in the first two paragraphs.
And that raises the question of just how important those facts are to our understanding and appreciation of the Steinbeck's story. So much to respond to!
The only fact that I found is ‘soledad’(I cannot make it italic) in Spanish means solitude. Is it relevant fact with the intention of the author setting the background, the countryside near Soledad.
ReplyDeleteI don’t know the difference between a village and a town, but the description about the highway implies one of linked city would be Soledad. Could it be a town?
The things attract my attention is “jungle-up” and “tramps”. When I read “Water for Elephants”, I know there were hobo jungles during Grate Depression time in the U.S. They were tramps and usually slept in the outside, i.e. usually they did jungle-up. If it is related to the term "jungle", the time set of the story would be 1930s or later.
Katie,
DeleteFor how to add italics, bold and links in comments, see "Comments - italics, bold, links and ¶" in the AEP CLASS BLOG - INFORMATION PAGES on the right.
Italics are fairly easy.
Links are a little more messy.
Try it. Before accepting to post it, Blogger scans your comment for any errors and lets you know. It won't accept to post any comment with an HTML error.
After I search for Soledad in California, I found that there was Mission Nuestra Señora de la Soledad started from October 9, 1791. But it is a failed mission after 1835. There was a gab between this year to 1954 in which Soledad was restored. Therefore, I think that the period between 1835-1950s is the time in Of Mice and Men happened. However, in the first two paragraph, highway is mentioned. After searching, I found that the first highway in California is I-80 opened on June 24, 1957. Finally, I though that this story takes place after 1957 which is the early period of Soledad restoration.
DeleteIf it is as I said, the beginning period in recover the city must be messy. Besides, there should be a large opportunity to set up their own farm as Gorge and Lennie want. So, they go to Soledad and hope to establish their business by starting as workers.
Ob, I like your source, but 1957 sounds very late to me for the first highway to be opened in California. It's getting pretty modern, almost when I had been born! (But not quite.)
DeleteIs that exactly what the California Dept. of Transportation says in "The History of Interstate Highways in California"?
How early were there highways in California?
Thank you Peter. How I look over interstate.
DeleteCalifornia Dept. of Transportation says that the first parkway (some source use freeway or highwayin California and in West is The Arroyo Seco Parkway, formerly known as the Pasadena Freeway open on December 30, 1940.
Thus, I change my mind that this story should happen around 1940-1950s.
In the 2nd paragraph of Ob's very informative source from the California State Government, what is the earliest date given?
DeleteSoledad is a city in Monterey County, California, United States.[3] Soledad is located 25 miles (40 km) southeast of Salinas,[4] at an elevation of 190 feet (58 m).[3] The population was 25,738 at the 2010 census.
ReplyDeleteSoledad is located in one of the primary wine grape growing regions of California with over twenty vineyards and wineries within a thirty mile radius, several of which have tasting rooms and offer a wide selection of wines for sale
Jennifer,
DeleteIs that very useful information copied and pasted from a source? If it is, I think you should cite that source. Even in the more relaxed blog atmosphere.
Is the background information that Steinbeck gives in paragraphs 1 and 2, and subsequently the rest of chapter 1, consistent with this information from Wikipedia?
After searching for "Soledad" in Wikipedia, I found out that it is a city in Monterey County, California, USA. It is a rural farming area, popular in wine industry and full of natural resource. Moreover, the meaning of this word is solitude, as Katie mentioned above. But what is more interesting is that it is stated that “One of the most important themes of the novel is loneliness, which is likely one of the reason why Soledad was chosen as the setting.”. I was quite surprised since I have not realised that one theme of this novel is loneliness. This may be because I have not finished reading it yet. However, I guess that either Lennie or George might feel lonely at the end of the story.
ReplyDeleteReference
Soledad, California. (2013, January 20). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 14:54, January 28, 2013, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soledad,_California&oldid=534069670
Excellent Soi.
DeleteI'm so glad someone has started talking about Steinbeck's possible themes, which may or may not be suggested in the first chapter.
If we widen our discussion to the whole of chapter 1, does loneliness seem like a theme that Steinbeck suggests at the start of his novel?
How direct is that suggestion?
(And a subsidiary question: Which of the four OALD definitions of suggest are we using here?)
I agree with Soi that loneliness is an important message which Steinbeck wants to convey to the readers in the first chapter. He states it clearly in the long monologue of George, while George starts telling about their dream land, he shows the contrast between them and other who ususaly travel alone. But although they stick together, George and Lennie still feel loneliness because they don't belong to anywhere.
DeleteLoneliness might develop to be the main theme of the story in the following chapter ,but I think we have to read until the end before telling what exactly is the theme of this story.
Above contants came from Wikipedia.retrieved on 20 January 2013 at 22:53.
ReplyDeleteThis is just reference to help our inference the appearence of the city in the era of this novel. Of course we can not imagine the picture of Soledad it's easy to guess this city was not big and alsothe primary industry here has been related grape growing and wine. Then this industry needed intensive labors.
Sometimes I feel fear from the descriptions of the peaceful nature by author; because we already many experiences from other works indivisually such as a silence prior a storm.
ReplyDeleteAs Sup mentioned above in these paragraphes the author pictured about only weak,gentle and fearful animals. These animals looks like the people in the same characteristics and the nature just looks peaceful, as we know at the same time it absolutely implies danger, cruelty and heartless.
In the jungle the path by the tramp of people who seems tough and violent. I think John Steinbeck want to show the readers the real backgrounds related characrers and the fate of main characters of this novel linking to the picture of the first two paragraphs.
ReplyDeleteI have had aquestion the word "jungle" Usually we use woods or forest I think ;however, the author uses the word "jungle". He shows his theme covering the story through this word. The law of the jungle.
ReplyDeleteFollowing my habit of checking everything, does Steinbeck use the word jungle? (Yes or No.)
DeleteIf he does, where is it?
I didn't understand jungle-up fully.I checked again. He didn't use this word in chapter 1,except "jungle-up".
Delete