Once we get past the nauseating title and the fairly stupid first paragraph, "Teachers instilling good morals in pupils", published in today's Nation, has some interesting content.
In her article, Wannapa Phetdee describes the efforts of a Malaysian and a Thai teacher to improve the behaviour of students at their schools. Although both accounts are worth some reflection, it was the work of Jamaliyah bt Shaik Abdullah from Malaysia that interested me more. In particular, her attention to changing very specific behaviour that was seen as undesirable in students at her school caught my eye. Like many, and unlike many who believe the opposite, Jamaliyah believes that "sharing understanding with students is better and more effective than punishing them" (Phetdee, 2009, ¶ 8). However, for Jamaliyah this is not some general nonsense so vague as to be perfectly meaningless. She did some research to get solid facts about very specific behaviours before implementing a detailed program to change those behaviours, and then checked to see if it actually worked or not. What she did was use video and other techniques to create a dialogue with students, and then measure the results over a period of months. As the article notes, the rate of students arriving at class late dropped dramatically over a three month period, from 333 instances in January this year to only 88 in February.
Happily, lateness is not a big problem in our class, but it is sometimes a problem at AUA, even amongst AEP students. Some questions that you might like to respond to in a comment are:
- What would you suggest to solve the problem of late arrival by AUA students?
- Would you favour a Jamaliyah like approach, or a punishment based approach? Why?
How would you react to each type of solution? - What specific proposal would you suggest to get students in class on time? Why?
- How about in other situations, where lateness is a problem? Say, parents arriving late to pick up their children from a class or activity?
- What factors are important in coming to a solution? What can we do? And what can't we do? (Cutting off the heads of offenders, whilst likely to be effective, is probably not acceptable. Parents would complain.)
__________
References
Phetdee, W. (2009, November 23). Teachers instilling good morals in pupils. The Nation. Retrieved November 23, 2009 from http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/11/23/national/national_30117127.php
Late arrival is a typical problem of many either schools or offices. When I was in high school, whenever we came late my teacher asked to stay out side the class and signed in our class note book that you promise this is the last time for late arrival, and my teacher evaluated our behaviour very month. I could work but not effectively, and I think it's just acceptale for high school and lower grade.
ReplyDeleteFor higher level such as universities or AUA language center we can't apply this method or any punishment because every student are mostly mature and they know how to behave.I really has no idea to suggest fo this problem. Teacher can't use punishment or remind the studend all the time about coming to class on time because they are not children any more and I wouldn't like punishment too.
However, I would suggest that if we have a sudden test in the beginning of the class, it could make studen come to class on time and reduce absence because the student will not know if it will be a test tomorrow or not.
In fact, the answer for this problem is student themself, and of course traffic is one of the typical and acceptable excuse of most people.
Unpunctual is a problem that happen very often in many situation such as when we are going to school, when we are going to work, or when we are having an appointment with someone. The coming late of AUA's students is one case that is still a problem. Although this is not a serious problem, it may make teacher and other friends waste their time because teacher has to explain what they're talking about before you arrive in the class and your friends have to wait until you understand. There are many solutions that we can use to solve that problem such as punishment and decreasing the score of the students; however, the most appropriate solution is to find out the cause of the problem why they are late and then giving the advices.
ReplyDeleteFor punishment, it is possible for younger students such as in primary school. The students at this age will be afraid of teacher's punishment which can be a physical punishment, asking them to clean the room alone, or ask them to stay after the class for being aware of their fault. Thus, they will follow the rule and not coming late because of being fear of punishment. However, this method is not work for adults student as well as worker. These students think that they are old enough to understand what is right and what is wrong, and they will not accept this kind of punishment. They may argue back that teacher has no right to punish them.
Another way is doing something that result in the students' score. For example, students who come to the class late are not allowed to attend the class, and teacher 'll check them absent fro the class which means they may fail that course because they don't spend enough time to join the class. This way makes the student be more careful of the time especially for responsible students. Yet, it doesn't has the effective result at AUA where score is not important for the students like in the university where the score has a great effect on students' future.
The most effective way to persuade students to arrive at the class on time is that teacher and students should talk and discuss together about the solution of this problem in order to understand the cause of being late for each person in the class, for individuals have their own reason why they are late. Finding the reason and the original cause of unpunctual is the better way to solving the problem. Teacher or maybe classmate can help these people to find out why they are usually late and give them the good advice. For instance, if one person come to the class late everyday, maybe his house is very far from the school, you can suggest him to get up earlier.
In conclusion, although several solutions can be used to solve the behavior of students that they are usually late, talking is the most suitable way to find a way of dealing with this situation.
Punishment alone might be effective in some case, however, Jamaliyah like approach seems more reasonable to solve the problem. Because sometimes the problem is more than just the laziness of the student. When I was a primary student, one of my friend always came late. His mother also confirmed that he left home early. Therefore, My teacher and his mother tried a variety of punishments on him. However, he still came late. Finally my teacher asked one of the classmate to track him to find out what he did. It turned out every morning he spent one hour to see fish in the pond on the way to the school. Later, his mother let him raise his own fish and he did not come late again.
ReplyDeleteLike my friend, some people might have their own problem in coming late. The teacher should discuss the problem wiht those students to figure out the way to solve the problem together.
One of the solutions which make students discuss why they are late or how they solve the problem could work effectively in a class. Because some of students think that lateness doesn’t matter for their classes but matter for only themselves, they feel few guilty for the lateness. Therefore, the solution could make students feel some responsibility for attending class on time and realize that they are one part of their classmates more strongly.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hands, a punishment for students who come late for theirs classes does not work for students in good way, even though some schools succeed in. Actually, I used to go that kind of school when I was a high school student. Because those students come to class on time just because they would like to avoid punishments, such as scolding or hitting, they tend to absent classes instead of lateness and they miss the whole following classes.
Thus, the solution should makes students come to school on time by themselves, in stead of forcing them to come. That solution could give benefit to not only students, but also schools because it would cause all of students’ scholastic ability to improve.
I like Jamaliyah'idea about "Be Good, Look Good" programme to improve students' bihavior. Human's behavior is complicate. This topic reminds me one of my subject in the university. It is the study with an experiment of animals' behavior. There are two effective approches which is a punishment and a reward.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, punishment is very effective in an animal, but it not effective for students because it makes students do not want to come to school anymore. To solve the problem of late arrival by AUA students, I think the teacher should motivate students to come on time with reward such as books and sweet biscuits. The teacher should record the time arrival of students everyday and give a reward to the student who always come on time. I think it can persuade many students to come early.
However, the most important factor for a solution is self-responsibility. Some students may have their own problem, so teachers should
ask them to find out it.
I disagree with Jamaliyah's ideas. Talking about the problems may be the better way to solve this problem than a punishment. However, it depends on situation, too. In some cases, it really is all about the student/worker's laziness. Sometimes he just couldn't care less about arriving on time. In this case, the talking wouldn't help and it all comes down to the punishment.
ReplyDeleteI witnessed lots of punishments which are not too offended or too harsh, only a little deal between workers-company/ students-school. For example, at my high school if students came late we would be fined 1 baht per minute. I used to run for my dear life once because I ran out of money that week after arriving late 4 days in a row. The school used the punishment first and if the student still came late so often (more than 5 times/semester), he would be asked for his parents to discuss with his teacher concerning the late arrival of him.
In university, we frequently have tests at the beginning of the class. Our teachers never tell us when a test is to be taken. Missing one test is a punishment enough in itself. Also, if you arrive late too often you won't be able to take the final examination, they'll kick you out. You're old enough to know the right and wrong. No talking is needed. It's your problem and not the university's.
As for AUA, the students are mature enough. We all know that arriving late is not a good thing to do. May be, a discussion about the bad effects of arriving late for yourself and your whole class would recall some senses for us. But, I don’t think it would help much because we all know it is bad and still do it. So, I think some fine ,along with some sudden tests might be effective.
I loved Liu's narration of his primary school friend's story, and the neat solution the boy's mother adopted.
ReplyDeleteI also liked Roong's example from her high school days. I wonder what other's think about that particular solution. (I don't think that Liu's friend's mother's solution is a realistic option in most cases, but Roong's might be more commonly feasible as an option to consider.)
Thanks for all the ideas so far.
Students naturally don't like being forced, including me. It’s true that teacher can force them to be punctual by punishing them or deducting their grade if they are late, and they are practical solution. But obviously they are not happy, and may not study well because they feel bad about their teacher. More importantly, it won’t change their habit. We need to look into the root cause that why are they late. And it’s hard to know the problem of every student in the class. But in most cases that I experienced, students come to class late because they find that the class is boring. When I was studying in the university, there were 2 classes starting at 9 am on Monday and Tuesday. And it turned out that many students came to Tuesday class late because the class was a bit boring. And Jamaliyah's idea might not work well for many cases that I’ve seen because making students understand is not making class to be more interesting.
ReplyDeleteFor AUA,grading in AUA class is nothing for students, so forcing them by punishment is impractical in anyway. It’s more important that teachers themselves have to construct their course to be more interesting. Many of my friends studying in AUA come to class late because they don’t like the class, it’s boring, and they don’t want to attend.
And having read Q's comment, I'm a bit worried!
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about Roong's suggestion that late comers be fined a small amount?
ReplyDeleteWhen might it be appropriate? Is it every appropriate?
In what situations would it not be appropriate? Why not?
With whom might it be effective?
Is it fair?
Can you see any disadvantages in the idea that people who come late for class, or something else, be fined a token amount?
Fining 1 baht per minute for late is interesting idea because it work for not only urging students come on time but also making them realize "Time is money". Lateness for class caused students behind in the class. It means they make themselves lose their money of the tution. If students would not like to lose their money, they should come punctualy. That punishment sounds like telling students that.
ReplyDeleteI think fining money might be a good idea, for example when people agree that they should come early and they just take this measure to drive them to come early. However, if they disagree at first that they should come early, this measure give the same effect as punishment that can cause resentment in the group.
ReplyDeleteRoong: I wouldn't prefer the solution that fine people when they come late because when i was in high school my teacher used to use this way in our class and it didn't work because my classmates don't afraif of fine, they're always ready to pay for their late, and sometimes we couldn't collect the money from the one who came late because he promise he will give later. I happened until my teacher had to change this method.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the idea of fine to use with students come late because I think it is too strict. It may make students don't come at AUA again or the person who don't care this punishment still do it without changing their behavior at all. I think we should create a rule that if they come late, they cannot come into the class.
ReplyDeleteI think sometime fining would not be work for the people who do not cre about the money. When I'm in university there is one class that teacher will fine 10 baht for being late but the student still come late because they think only 5 baht they can pay but when he change to has the quiz or check the name of the student at the begining of the class it can reduce the number of the student who come late becuse they think they will miss the quiz and that can make them get a low grade.
ReplyDeleteI, myself, also don't think it is appropiate in every situation. In kindergartens or primary schools, students would be brought to tear if we fine them. It is appropiate when we use it on those lazy and careless people who know exactly it is bad to come late and would feel annoyed to be fined everyday. They will finally realize that arriving on time is a necessary action for them to do or they will be too annoyed about it and determine not to arrive late anymore. In this case, I still insist, talking would not help a bit, trust me my high school already tried that on us.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Roong's idea about making a test in the earlier hour of the class which I used to experience this situation; however, this method has an effective for only a responsibility students. For example, some of my friends don'y care about their grade much, so they don't pay attention to take that small test.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with collecting money from the high school students because if some students don't have enough money to pay for this as I used to have friends whose parents didn't give them money to school in spite of very little money in my opinion. As it's very little value, everyone can pay for this. That means the students don't care about being late because they have money to pay.
About Roong's ideas, it's a good idea. You can force the student that way. but for students who are very rich and don't care about the money, they might not come earlier. And also for the university's student, it's not appropriate because they are already mature. And you can't fine them because they are late. it's what they want. they can think what is more important to them.
ReplyDeleteI like the point made by An, Mimi and Ing. I especially like the evidence they present to support that point.
ReplyDeleteIs it enough evidence?
As I mentioned in my initial post, I'm pleased that late attendance is not a problem in our class; I didn't ask you to comment because I was looking for a solution to an actual problem. Rather, it's a concrete introductory exercise to an essay we are going to read.