What I read
In "Gwinnett minister, wife, sons brawl with police during missing child rescue"(2018), Paisa Habersham reports the situation when Gwinnett County minister and his family obstruct and disobey officer's order in front of a church when police team is rescuing the teenage girl which is found in the back of minister's car after being reported a missing girl at Lawrence Highway. The situation goes worse when the minister and one of his son approach and assault the officers while the wife also keeps yelling "[why're you so mean? there're kids here]". The officers can finally restrainedly use their ability to control the situation, the minister and family are arrested, the missing girl is returned to her family, and the video at the scene taken by police camera goes viral on social media.
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My response
I've first seen this news and the video on facebook a couple day ago. It really goes viral on Facebook when every sound is kind of supporting the police officers. This is news about the police officers, but I won't mention anything about Thai officers or government here; otherwise, it'll more about politic.
First, this can be such an argument that what officers did exceed their right or they were too cruel to take action when there were kids there because if you take a look in the video, the officer pointed the taser toward minister and did shoot it. The officers, of course, have the right to use the weapon, but just in an inevitable situation, not every situation. We then should consider the law if the situation those officers were was reasonable enough to take up the taser and shoot at the minister. I didn't study law and didn't find any information, but I'll say what I think next.
Yes, and what I think is that what officers have done is reasonable and they have right to do that. There might be some controversial case with the police on social media when the police officers exceed their right. For example, if the officer takes up the gun and shoot and cause a thief to death, there must be an argument. I wouldn't say much about that. But, the situation in this news, it's definitely different from my previous example. If you've watched the short video in the news, the officers did tell the family to "get back" many times but they didn't listen but assault the officer and even grab the taser and radio from the police. I would say the officers had a great restraint to carefully control the situation and nothing went worse than little fight. And that's what I agree with every comment on Facebook - they say the officer had a great restraint.
For the reason that the minister and his family didn't let the officer get to the missing girl, I don't know. But as long as they are government official, they have right to give an order, and minister's family should have obeyed to "get back" and let the police do their work. And when the woman said "why you so mean, there're kids here", there's my favorite comment by someone on Facebook saying that "instead of saying that, why don't you take your kids to a safer place".
I personally don't know much detail about this news but if I think even if they had any good reasons, they still should have done what officer told to do, and they can say their reason to the police or to the court later. Maybe they are, at first, not really criminals; however, what they did gave them new charges - "not complying with Police, assaulting Police Officers, and stealing Police property (radio and tasers)"
First, this can be such an argument that what officers did exceed their right or they were too cruel to take action when there were kids there because if you take a look in the video, the officer pointed the taser toward minister and did shoot it. The officers, of course, have the right to use the weapon, but just in an inevitable situation, not every situation. We then should consider the law if the situation those officers were was reasonable enough to take up the taser and shoot at the minister. I didn't study law and didn't find any information, but I'll say what I think next.
Yes, and what I think is that what officers have done is reasonable and they have right to do that. There might be some controversial case with the police on social media when the police officers exceed their right. For example, if the officer takes up the gun and shoot and cause a thief to death, there must be an argument. I wouldn't say much about that. But, the situation in this news, it's definitely different from my previous example. If you've watched the short video in the news, the officers did tell the family to "get back" many times but they didn't listen but assault the officer and even grab the taser and radio from the police. I would say the officers had a great restraint to carefully control the situation and nothing went worse than little fight. And that's what I agree with every comment on Facebook - they say the officer had a great restraint.
For the reason that the minister and his family didn't let the officer get to the missing girl, I don't know. But as long as they are government official, they have right to give an order, and minister's family should have obeyed to "get back" and let the police do their work. And when the woman said "why you so mean, there're kids here", there's my favorite comment by someone on Facebook saying that "instead of saying that, why don't you take your kids to a safer place".
I personally don't know much detail about this news but if I think even if they had any good reasons, they still should have done what officer told to do, and they can say their reason to the police or to the court later. Maybe they are, at first, not really criminals; however, what they did gave them new charges - "not complying with Police, assaulting Police Officers, and stealing Police property (radio and tasers)"
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My question
Did the officers exceed their right? (You might want to check out the video in the news first)
When is the force using by the police officers considered to be excessive and when is not?
When is the force using by the police officers considered to be excessive and when is not?
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Reference
- Habersham, P. (2018, March 26). Gwinnett minister, wife, sons brawl with police during missing child rescue. AJC News. Retrieved from https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/gwinnett-minister-wife-and-sons-brawl-with-police-during-missing-child-rescue/MZR2OQRRYMYpKyUP7A7kCJ/
I like Melon's suggestion that we watch the video first. I'm not going to comment on this particular case because I haven't watched the video.
ReplyDeleteBut as I was reading, I was reminded that the law is often wrong. I mean the law often morally corrupt, so obeying the law might mean that the police and others enforcing the law are doing something morally wrong, which seems to me the case in many situations, such as arresting people for using illegal drugs when they are not harming or threatening anyone else. As Melon says, these issues quickly become political, and the proper response is probably to change the bad law to make it just, which politicians in increasing numbers of countries, even some US states, are now doing to reduce the harms that drugs cause to society. I am sure that for as long as there have been laws, there have been bad laws and good people who became criminals to oppose those bad laws, such as SOcrates in ancient Greece and Rosa Parks in the US, who was arrested in 1955 because she sat in a white person's seat on a bus. She was certainly a criminal because she had broken the law, but she was also brave for doing that to protest the unjust law that discriminated against African Americans at that time.
As I said, I haven't watched the video or read the details, but from Melon's description, it sounds as though the police were probably in the right in this case.
The other idea I had was that things are better today because so much is recorded on video, whether from police cameras or the smartphones of people witnessing events. This evidence of what actually happened seems to me more reliable than human memories often are for checking facts.
I agree that sometime the law can arrest an innocent person; as long as there are law(which is for sure), there will be both bad law and good law. And as I read your reply, it reminds me to think more deeply - what if the law are doing something bad to this family.
DeleteAs I saw in the video and read the description, here's what I understand. It all started when a mother reported the police the missing girl, then the police found that missing girl in the back of minister car. And when the police tried to approach that girl, the minister and his son then attacked(not severe fight) and his wife said "why so mean, there're kids....". By my understanding, it seemed very clear that police was doing the right thing and the minister's family was breaking the law and guilty of something.
However, after I read your reply, it reminds me that sometime the law is unjust. It sometimes takes a wrong person to the prison, which is exactly true. I saw many cases in the movies and also in real life which is in that situation when an innocent man has to be in prison or struggle in the court and the real guilty man is free.
And not only in the law, it's everywhere that is sometimes unjust. I mean what we see might be opposite to what it really is. One of my similar example in my life, it's many posts on Facebook showing some information or photos or videos. They all are alluring to share and write your comment. I used to share these things but nowadays I've learned that everything I share, it has possibility that it is not true or just used politically or something in the bad way, so now I never share any of them, the serious topic, again.
Back to the story in the news, for my understanding from what I read and saw, the minister's family is wrong, but what I read and saw is a too simple case, which I think it has something more complicated than that - it's not a children story. So, I don't know what really happened beyond that. Maybe the police is wrong, the minister is right, or the police is right, the minister is wrong. It's very hard in every step in our lives to judge something; we can never know everything thoroughly except ourselves.