Read the two sentences below about our class member Rian.
Which one must be true? Which one might be true?
- Rian is from Udonthani.
- In my opinion, Rian is from Udonthani.
Saturday 6 August 2011
Academic Writing, question 1 - Part I. Which must be true?
This is a really short post about a common issue in the first academic writing assignment. I decided to move some of the discussion here for several reasons: it leaves a record you can refer back to, it will save us some time in class, it gives you the chance to think for a few more minutes before sharing your ideas, and it means you are writing and supporting your idea, which we like in a reading and writing class.
Read the two sentences below about our class member Rian.
Which one must be true? Which one might be true?
Read the two sentences below about our class member Rian.
Which one must be true? Which one might be true?
27 comments:
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The first sentence expresses an idea the must be true. Because whenever I ask any friends who know that where is Rian from, the answer will always express an idea that Rian is from Udonthani.
ReplyDeleteWhile the second sentence might be true or not. The sentence also expresses an idea of uncertainty about where is Rian from.
Dig,
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your ideas on this question.
I wonder if others will agree or disagree with your reasoning.
When you look at the thesis statement excerpts from the first drafts of the answers to the essay question about traditional cultures such as the Dogon's, you will see that about half use language similar to sentence 1, and half use language similar to sentence 2.
The purpose of this discussion is to decide which is preferable in academic writing, and why. Clearly, both are common. And it's perhaps also worth asking why both types of language are so common.
To me the first sentence must be true because there is no word express idea of the answer. Meanwhile the second one is might be true because there is phrase 'In my opinion' which represent the giving opinion of the answer.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dig. The first sentence is stronger than the second one...represents the fact instead of opinion.
ReplyDeleteTo the question about which type of language are preferable in academic writing. I think the first sentence is the answer, because in academic writing, we have to support our position. A good way to do that is to give a strong expression which I think we can see from the first sentence.
ReplyDeleteBoth types of language are common because we usually have to tell or provide information (using the first type) and discuss an arguable issue (the second).
May be I can use our response writing to be an example. In summary part, I think we must use the first type in order to provide information we have read in the article, while in response part, we use the second type to tell our opinion.
I really agree with the last Dig's answer which is very clearly. :)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTang (August 7, 2011 12:02 AM) and Dig (August 7, 2011 12:15 AM) have both used words that introduce highly relevant ideas here. Those words are strong and support respectively.
ReplyDeleteAnd as Dig goes on to explain, with excellent clarity, these concepts very closely related, which is why I agree with him, although I might make a slightly stronger claim: we should not normally use language such as I think, in my opinion, from my point of view and so on in our academic writing, and definitely not in a topic sentence or thesis statement.
Of course, there are always exceptions. What are they? When and where in your academic writing might you appropriately use the in my opinion type of language?
If you are unclear about anything here, especially the reasons, please ask - I am sure that someone will be happy to help with an answer.
And talking of supporting an idea, it's probably time that I did some research and asked Rian where he is from.
Rian, are you from Udonthani?
(Note: Rian's answer is irrelevant to my initial questions in the blog post. Why?)
So, which sentence must be true, 1. or 2.?
ReplyDeleteWe do want a clear and direct answer to this question.
sentence 1. this is because it is the fact from the writer's point of view, wheile 2. is just an opinion which may be or may not be true.
ReplyDeleteThank you Dig (August 6, 2011 6:47 PM), Dew (August 6, 2011 11:47 PM) and Lek (August 7, 2011 7:10 AM).
ReplyDeleteYou get extra points if you give your answer and reasons before we hear from Rian, to whom I have not spoken about where he is from.
Do you agree with Dig, Dew and Lek? Is sentence 1. the one that must be true?
I'm not sure from her comment which sentence Tang thinks must be true.
I agree with Dig, Dew, and Lek.
ReplyDeleteBut I don't agree with the popular view.
ReplyDeleteI rather hope that Rian can add a note soon to tell us where he is from. That would probably be very useful at this point in the discussion.
Hint: as already noted, especially by Dig, one of the sentences states an idea that needs support, and the other one does not. What sort of statements do not need support?
I'm agree with Peter, we shouldn't use "I think, in my opinion, from my point of view and so on in our academic writing, and definitely not in a topic sentence or thesis statement " (August7, 2011 7:00 AM). Furthermore, we must add more other's support speeches or information, because in academic writing every words should be proved.
ReplyDeleteAnd the question: Which of these two statements expresses an idea that must be true? Explain why it must be true.
The first sentence is a fact, on the other hand, the second is just only one person's opinion.
From my comment above, I want to expand more idea.
ReplyDeleteThe idea is that one can be more confident with a result if different methods lead to the same result. If an investigator uses only one method, the temptation is strong to believe in the findings. If an investigator uses two methods, the results may well clash. By using three methods to get at the answer to one question, the hope is that two of the three will produce similar answers, or if three clashing answers are produced, the investigator knows that the question needs to be reframed, methods reconsidered, or both. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation_(social_science) Retrieved August7, 2011)
Golf,
ReplyDeleteAre you agreeing with me or with Dig and everyone else as to which sentence must be true?
I like, and agree with, almost all of your comments, but I'm not sure which sentence you think must be true.
I think the definition of the word fact might be a source of confusion.
What is a fact?
This is one reason that I was hoping Rian would come by and add his comment: he is likely to know where he is from far more reliably than I do.
I think the first sentence is false and the second sentence if true.
ReplyDeleteWhen I considered it again, I think the first sentence might be true and the second sentence must be true because we don't know the true information that where is Rian from?, so we can't conclude in first sentence that Rian is from Udonthani by ourselves.
ReplyDeleteAt first, I agree with P'Dig and everyone, but now teacher makes me hesitate.This idea is really against my common sense and I think it's wrong but I will attempt to think.
ReplyDeleteI think the first sentence "Rian is from Udonthani" might be true because we cannot be sure about the source. If it's true, other things we write about P'Rian and his hometown are supported by this sentence. However, we cannot be sure if it's true. It's possible that our source could be wrong if P'Rian doesn't come to prove. It's the knowledge from investigation.
The second sentence "In my opinion, Rian is from Udonthani." must be true because it's true in my point of view. If I have this opinion, I must say it from my reasoning. I have to provide suppoting ideas to say why it's true. It's the knowledge from thinking.
In academic writing, I think we use the statements that must be true to support what might be true. Oh! I give up. I decide to agree with popular opinion as we cannot support sentence one with sentence two.
I look forward to Peter's reason and P'Rian's as well.
Fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence.
ReplyDeleteSentence 1“Rian is from Udonthani”It is a fact.When people write Academic writing,they try to establish the facts. They hope that the faces will bear out or support their hypothesis. Most people carefully check their facts before presenting them to others,while there are dishonese people prepared to disort the facts in order to demand that their facts are interesting.Therefore, fact might be true or false.
Sentence 2 “In my opinion, Rian is from Udonthani”. It is an opinion. When people write their Academic writing, thesis statement is from their opinion.It must be true. If thesis statment is not true, how can we support it clearly? If thesis statment might be true, your writing must be loosely.
I agree with Gloria:)
ReplyDeleteWhere is Rian? Does he lose his Ipad?
ReplyDeleteAs you probably remember, on Monday last week we also had some discussion about facts when we were discussing types of sentences. We then decided that a sentence which ended in a full stop that was telling us (reporting) something was a statement, not a fact. It might be reporting a fact, but maybe not: it might also be telling us something which was not actually true, and therefore not a fact.
ReplyDeleteIt might also help to think about the grammatical subject of each sentence.
What is sentence 1. talking about?
What is sentence 2. talking about?
That's why I largely agree with June, who I hope will explain her answer at August 7, 2011 11:08 PM. (I'm not sure that 1. is false because I'm still waiting to hear from Rian. If 1. is true, it's mostly an accident - I certainly had no very strong reasons for stating it.)
As most commentators have realised, the question I asked and your subsequent discussion have brought up issues of truth, fact, support and reasonableness, all of which are at the heart of academic work and writing.
I also agree with Dig. Has Rian lost his iPad? (August 8, 2011 3:22 AM)
Sorry, my suggestion to think about the grammatical subject is clearer if we paraphrase 2. as:
ReplyDelete2b. I think that Rian is from Udonthani.
or
2c. I believe that Rian is from Udonthani.
What is the subject of these sentences? What are they making a statement about? And what is the significant difference with sentence 1.?
Oh! Sorry everyone that I have been keeping your curiosity about my hometown until now. I just went back last night from Chacengsao doing workshop for a hundred teachers and the hotel where I had stayed had awful signal of wifi.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with majority that the first sentence is stronger.
For the answer that where I originated, my father he is from Supanburi, my mother is from Sakonnakorn but I was born in Bangkok. Please tell me what the answer shoud be? Hahaha...
Thank you Rian.
ReplyDeleteThat should help a lot. I hope.
And I'm glad I was wrong - it makes the important much clearer than if I had been right about where you are from.
Thank you for the excellent discussion both here and in class this morning. I think it cleared up this issue very well, and in the process led to a very useful analysis of the concepts: fact, opinion, idea, and true.
ReplyDelete